Spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland, Lukash Jasina, about summaries of V. Zelenskyy’s visit

Spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland, Lukash Jasina, about summaries of V. Zelenskyy’s visit

Poland is the strongest Ukraine’s ally

Spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland, Lukash Jasina said: ‘Ukraine and Poland are close friends. And since the beginning of the full-scale Russia’s war against Ukraine, Warsaw and Kyiv have been building new relationships’

This week there was the first official Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s visit to Poland since the beginning of the full-scale Russia’s invasion in Ukraine. Lukash Jasina commented to Poland about a results of the visit on live on the Polish Radio for Ukraine.

Mr. Lukash, there was the first official the President’s of Ukraine visit to Poland since the beginning of the full-scale Russia’s war against Ukraine. What main conclusions from the visit do Poland see?

Primarily, it was an important visit, and it would be an important visit even if Volodymyr Zelenskyy had not made a speech, but only came to Warsaw because we were waiting for him. Poland is the strongest Ukraine’s ally. It will always help Ukraine. We have got much in common, from the prevalence of cereal crops to history treatment. I believe we will manage to pull through it. Poland was waiting for Volodymyr Zelenskyy because it had to be his first visit just for the purpose of visiting. Zelenskyy does not come to Poland so he does to Washington, London, Paris in order to ask for weapons, because he knows that he receives the weapons if we have it. He came to thank the Polish people, nation and politicians, from all sides of the public discourse for their help. He came to thank simple polish citizens for the places in their apartments they gave to Ukrainians. He came to meet with the Ukrainians that protect their homeland’s honor also here, in Poland, by helping Ukraine. He came also to show that Ukraine and Poland are close ones and will be the close ones, and to show that we have been building new relations now, since the beginning of the war.

The Prime Minister of Poland was talking about a new security architecture. How is it going to appear and what is Poland’s part here?

Poland’s part in the new architecture is essential. And I am saying it not only because I am a Pole, but also because the war in Ukraine has shown that Central Europe is incredibly important for any kind of security architecture. Therefore, the new architecture is, first of all, the safest flank of NATO, there are more American and alliance’s strength, expanded armies of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Scandinavian countries’ joining to NATO. Finland is already joined the alliance. We hope that we will manage to overcome Turkey’s and Hungary’s fear and NATO will get Sweden as a new member. Eventually, it is support to Ukraine, which is becoming our ally. Poland would like Ukraine to join NATO within the security architecture. Obviously, it depends not solely on us. However, Poland will support very strongly. It is also important to claim once for all that Russia is no longer our partner in building the new architecture in Europe. We hope Russians will get out from Ukraine, we hope the day will come and there will be no war. But even this new Russia will be too potential danger to build any joint plans of safety. Ukraine is becoming a part of Europe, not a post-soviet space.

And what can Poland do so that Ukraine joins NATO?

What can we do? Talk, talk, talk and again talk that this is necessary. Support Ukraine militarily so that it does not fall and lose the war. We all know that Bahmut stands, but it does not mean that the war is won at all. And the third one is to explain our western allies that there is no reason to get back to the time of February 2022 and try to communicate with Russia. Ukraine will be the country that will build our safety. I am saying it as a citizen of Poland, flagship NATO member. And finally, the fourth one: what can you do? Just keep fighting and win this war. And it is what Ukraine can do. In NATO’s case, reforms are important, but they are not the most important ones. NATO is a military pact, so when it comes to soldiers, to defense, Ukraine is really better than many of us here. However, we have to remember that Ukraine has to not only join NATO, but also become a part of the European Union one day – not just because it can to, but because it will be capable of managing it. And here it is impossible to make a political decision at a summit about our invitation for Ukraine to join the pact. No. There are needed many reforms that Ukraine started and has implementing since 2014. Remember that I am saying it as a Pole. Before joining the EU, we had no war, but no one had excused us and we had to perform the reforms. Ukraine will have to do that, it is not going to be easy. It will be complicated by the process of Ukraine’s reconstruction, in which Poland will take a big part and which, by the way, may force Ukraine to perform many reforms. It is because we are not ready to give money that we do not know where will go. But I believe that Ukraine is able to do it, especially able is the young Ukrainian generation, which saved and keeps saving its country in the war. Many Ukrainians went to the west of Europe and saw how it looked. You will not want to give your country away to different corruption nets that have been interfering the reforms in Ukraine for the last 20-30 years. Of course, you will not give Ukraine not only to Putin, but also to a different tiny Putins.

Political union of Poland and Ukraine. What chances?

Primarily, this union is already a fact. Ukraine is neither in NATO, nor in the EU, but it is our ally, our friend. As I have already mentioned, this friendship is strong enough to be able to tell each other the truth. After Volhynia we do not have to pretend that nothing happened, about the pre-war destinies of Ukrainians in Poland, about many other issues. Finally, Poles are getting started to understand Ukraine. Even if someone has never been neither to Ukraine, nor to Poland’s west, now this person meets some living Ukrainians, speaks with them, watches the war on TV or listens to it on the radio. It is the same with Ukrainians. However, only 2 million out of that several million migrants stayed, but it was the first time that that many Ukrainians saw the pros and cons of Poland. Together we discover that we are really close to each other culturally, not only because we eat, sleep and have fun in a similar way. Polish women like to get married to Ukrainian men and Ukrainian men like to get married to Polish women. I mean that we are really close to each other culturally. History, our love of freedom and our industriousness unites us. Poles and Ukrainians are really hardworking people, although it did not always define that they had a lot of money in their countries. It is also due to experience that we show our political elites what we are worth. That is why this union is a fact yet, regardless of whether Ukraine will be in the European Union or not. Ukraine and Poland are enormous countries. Together we count over 80 million inhabitants. We are countries with Russian experience and we are the United States’ allies. If we had not start to argue and compete about who is the most important one in Central Europe, what could have happened? There are people who think like that in both Poland and Ukraine. This union will save our tranquility at least over the next decade. Poland will help Ukraine to recover from the consequences of the war, even during the war. Even if this war goes on much longer. But we have to work on institutions, films, joint cultural projects so that our border, where I come from Hrubeshuv, is not a problem, but a place that unites us. To make this border more open, because in the last year it has not really changed for our benefit. Someone who at least once has been to Lviv in order to bring something, now has Ukrainian friends there. Therefore, it is a perspective union. If we do not spoil it on our own, no one spoils it.

That was our discussion about the new possible union of Ukraine and Poland. We also have a tripartite union between Poland, Ukraine and the UK. Is this union effective?

It depends on - effective in what? Politically, all of the unions you mentioned are important, because there is a triangle – Poland-USA-Ukraine, which people often do not remember about, do not speak that loud, but this union exists and it is very politically important. The Polish-British-Ukrainian one is important as well. They also work together well, helping each other in a military way. But we must work on these alliances in a way so that they survive and they are here not only to send tanks, soldiers or just help Ukraine in this war. Because these alliances are keeping Ukraine in Europe and in North Atlantic space. But I am saying that if neither Ukraine, nor we do not spoil it, no one spoils it, Ms. Editor, Russia does not for sure.

There are issues of historical memory between Poland and Ukraine. Are they already in the past?

Maybe I am not quite objective because I am a historian. But there were many people in Poland and Ukraine who tried to bypass history, saying ‘it is not the time for that’ and that we need to move to the future, not to deal with the past. It is going to be a mistake. The past always returns. It always returns because it is in our heads, in our memoirs. Because there are those things that our parents and grandparents used to tell us. And politics proves that when society reaches a certain economic stability, it returns to the past. Life in Poland has improved and people think about history more than before. They remember about German combinations with operations. People in border territories remember what Ukrainian nationalists were doing there. People in Ukraine remember history as well. Also some bad things that Poles was doing. People in Galicia, Volhynia who had grandparents there, who were harmed by Poles. What to do with it? – to remember. There is nothing to hide. The past, about which, I am sure, every psychologist knows – it must be admitted, it must be clear. Poles and Ukrainians should talk about everything that hurts frankly. Although there are those who want to use history against us. I am talking about Russia and its propaganda. It is an issue that we with Ukrainians have to solve together. No one will do it for us. Firstly - to talk about it, secondly – to apologize to each other.

What documents were signed on a visit? What military help will Poland give to Ukraine? And what are the prospects for creating an aviation coalition?

We do not know whether the aviation coalition will be or not, we are going to try to help Ukraine on the issue and to lobby it. Many eastern partners do not believe that a Ukrainian pilot will not sit in a plane and go to Moscow, although Poland, for instance, fully understands attacks in Crimea. Crimea, for us, is always a part of Ukraine, so it is not an any kind of violation. We will really try. Poland has shown eight MIGs and is ready to add six more. We promised fourteen, there will be fourteen. However, we are waiting for the whole alliance’s decision. There are rather no independent decisions of each NATO country. Parts will come. We will see. We will deal with everything. From our part, for now we send Wolverines, Crabs, Peruns, which we like very much. For example, the Wolverine armored personnel carrier – 150 pieces. Quietly and everything in order. We will send one after another quietly and we will have further discussions about further support. Poland has no problems here. We also look in on our friends from Germany and France, so that they send us that much that they promised. About an aviation coalition – for the present, we are working on this issue.

And what about a tank coalition? How much in general has Poland given to Ukraine?

We have sent over three hundred tanks. And we are ready to send even more. It is fourteen Leopards, in particular. We have got approval from Germany. It is just really slow. Germany is going to send a little bit slower, but probably, they also will send. In July we are having a NATO summit in Vilnius. And we believe, we are sure that Ukraine will hold out until July.

Mr. Moravetski said that during the summit Poland would be emphasizing on guarantees of safety for Ukraine.

Of course, it is not fully clear how that is going to appear, but it is about guarantees for your sky as well, because for six months’ airplanes have not been able to fly. There are no guarantees for your border. But we will see how it is going to appear. It is the first time that on NATO summit have appeared more countries that tend to support Ukraine. Remember how strong this flank is. Scandinavia, the Baltics and Romania will be next. Be optimistic. These two months of negotiations before the summit will be essential for Ukraine. 12th of July – this date, by the way, coincides with the commemoration of Volhynia in Poland. Thus, it is not going to be easy to convey to our society to continue supporting Ukraine, because we have to support Ukraine until the end. Russia is still too strong to lose this war. So, please, be optimistic about it. We will stand for Ukraine for good.

Questions about reconstruction of Ukraine. How many Polish companies are going to help with the reconstruction of Ukraine? Is there such a number today?

Lists are being formed. Probably, there will be several hundred companies. The agreement, which was signed a few days ago, shows that Poland will have priority. We will be informed by the Ukrainian authorities. It is something like being first in receiving information. We are really going to make use of that, like of all of those guarantees, we are ready to do it. Poland has a lot of transport and construction companies. We will see how it is going to be. Business also likes silent, but the vibe became very great. Our Ukrainian partners know that it is worth letting to earn your friends, but not your enemies. But how it is going to appear? Part of Ukraine is very damaged by the hostilities. For example, in Lviv region there are also military damages due to bombings. Reconstruction would be more renaissance of Ukraine, revival of your country, because we also will be waiting for both guarantees and your legislation that must be reformed. We have a great relationship at the highest level, but it is not always possible to get along, for instance, with the head of the district administration or the mayor of the city. However, I treat it with optimism. And I think that Polish companies will soon get started to explore the Ukrainian market, which is very similar to the Polish market in the 1990’s. Our market is better in 10-15 years, because we had to prepare to join the EU. Your market will have to be prepared to cooperate with EU companies as well. Ukraine must create a system of reconstruction, and we will adapt to it. We will not lack those who want.

What Polish officials’ visits to Ukraine are expected in the near future?

Since they come to Ukraine almost every 2 months, I believe that somewhere in May we can expect a visit by the President, Andrzej Duda. Apparently, it is the end of May. I do not know whether it will be Kyiv or Lviv, but for sure, the presidents will be meeting. If, for example, Volodymyr Zelenskyy goessomewhere to the East through Poland in the near future, they, maybe, will meet in Ryashev. The Prime Minister will go in order to clear some economic things up. If there is something to go with and something to clarify, the visit will be. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Zbigniew Rau, plans to visit Kyiv and Kharkiv in June.

Thank you for the interview!

Svitlana Myalyk spoke

Translated by Maxim Malienko